And in the beginning: the fandom exploded - or imploded. There was ploding involved.

[astri13]

It was the best of times and it was the worst of times waiting for this episode. Except for the best of times part. The wank that trailed this one the week before it aired was EPIC. And the spoilery teases the last few days were nauseating if anything.

This was the first time in my entire life that I wished I could or would go spoiler free because being violated by a broken bottle would have been more fun than that.

Thankfully the episode itself was much, much better than being violated by a broken bottle. :D

Supernatural

It wasn't perfect by any means. And if I look at it with a magnifying glass and take into account every single piece of previously established canon about the YED and everything, it won't totally hold. Though seeing how canon got whiplash somewhere two Seasons back, that would have been an impossible feat.

But it also managed to give a few nods to continuity and to hold together better than I did think possible.

Serious "Back to the Future" vibes here with Marty in the diner. Cute scene.

Mary was a rocking hunter chick who wanted out and into a normal life. To me she encompassed things I can see both in Dean and Sam. The exchange where she told Dean about her dreams - for her kids - was beautifully played and heartbreaking. Kudos to Jensen especially.

Mitch Pileggi rocked the Samuel - again very Dean but also Sam in things.

Deanna - family peacekeeper. Aka Dean.

Splendid with the casting and the little familial touches.

Yes, Dean participated in events but THANK GOD they made it clear - at least to me, I've seen people playing the blame game already - he wasn't responsible for the demise of his whole family. The past is the past and if you back and try to change it, it will course-correct itself. Always and forever. That's what Castiel said at the end.

However, by the same token, I don't think that's true for the future. See that even the angels don't know it. Therefore, it's not set in stone and can be changed. Destiny = Past, events, that DID happen. Destiny = future.

With John, I'm of two minds. It was heartbreaking to watch him be so full of sweetness and optimism, knowing what's to come. However, this IS supposed to play out AFTER he returned from Nam right? He was a bit too wide-eyed, never-saw-anything-of-the-world country boy to me in that case. Way back when his old business partner said he always had been competitive, headstrong yet those aspects were totally missing in his personality. Granted, we pretty much saw him interacting with Mary the most and it was said he did worship her so I wouldn't expect those to come out here.

Hm, hm.

Not too happy about the reveal at the end but I'm willing to hope and see if they make more of it. Thing is, it's cute that Dean is protective of Sam and sees it as his mission to keep his little brother from harm. But the universe doesn't need to hold that view too. The guy is his own person. He should be allowed to be worth something AS his own person, with no regard to whom he is related and/or whom he can serve as.

In other words, Sam is important for things about Sam that have nothing to do with Dean. Just like any normal individual. The very same I want to see for Dean.

And yes, despite my definite affinity for Dean, I did miss Sam in this week's episode. Would absolutely delighted if he got to see and bond with his long-lost family, especially mother as well. It's a fantasy show, it's not impossible.


So, verdict so far this Season: three for three.

Comments

[gatorpez.livejournal.com]

Oh god, I agree about what happened the day of the episode, a lot of it came from some of the reviewers.

I also agree that I thought the show did make it clear that Dean wasn't responsible for anything that happened in the past - it would've happened anyway. I thought Castiel was pretty clean when he said what he to Dean...if people choose to not accept that, then I think they're ignoring canon and looking to blame Dean.

As far as the ending goes, I thought what Castiel said actually opened it up for Dean to be more than Sam's guard dog/babysitter. I think Dean himself will include Sam in his (Dean's) purpose, but I don't Castiel was including Sam in the reason Dean was brought back from Hell. To me, there were two different topics in the sentences Castiel said to Dean - the end game and Sam's path. I guess we'll see what happens, but I really do hope the reason Dean was brought back from Hell has to with Dean himself and not because he's Sam big brother.

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Oh god, I agree about what happened the day of the episode, a lot of it came from some of the reviewers.

Yeah, please never again. Teasing people is well and good but when you see that people in response are miserable and not the least bit excited, damn well clear it up for them. Or don't start it in the first place.

.if people choose to not accept that, then I think they're ignoring canon and looking to blame Dean.

Ditto.

As far as the ending goes, I thought what Castiel said actually opened it up for Dean to be more than Sam's guard dog/babysitter. I think Dean himself will include Sam in his (Dean's) purpose, but I don't Castiel was including Sam in the reason Dean was brought back from Hell. To me, there were two different topics in the sentences Castiel said to Dean - the end game and Sam's path. I guess we'll see what happens, but I really do hope the reason Dean was brought back from Hell has to with Dean himself and not because he's Sam big brother.

I have some hope. It would be great if they can play it out like this.

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

no looking to blame Dean, but the boy could and likely would blame himself, because no matter what *he* thinks he could have saved them, and no matter what the angel said if he thinks he could have changed things and not be the catalyst then he would feel guilty

mind you, I don't think he ought to, but Dean would


and I do hope he gets a purpose beyond "save your brother, he is all important"!

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree, he probably will add it to his internal guilt tab. I don't even mind that though it breaks my heart for him. I just would have hated it if they had made him responsible for real.

and I do hope he gets a purpose beyond "save your brother, he is all important"!

*nod nod* Please don't disappoint me, show.

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

I just would have hated it if they had made him responsible for real.

I totally agree, and while i think Kripke is evil, I certainly hope he isn't that evil.

and lets all pray for Dean's purpose

[http://users.livejournal.com/_wyrd_sister_/]

I have nothing against Sam, I like him a lot, but actually I loved the fact that this was a completely and utter Dean-ep. It's great when things get personal for him - and yeah, I was having the whole "Back to the Future"-flash as well. He even mentioned the Delorian... *yay*

I'm not "in" this fandom in any way (except for watching the show itself), so I don't know what people are talking about, but I agree that in the end they made clear that Dean couldn't have changed anything and certainly didn't "start" things at all. This was more of a real life movie than anything else. (Although I was kinda disappointed when it turned out he hadn't told his *real* grandfather about himself...)

[astri13.livejournal.com]

I was having the whole "Back to the Future"-flash as well. He even mentioned the Delorian... *yay*

Yes, that was awesome. There were so many cute little nods there to the future.

I'm not "in" this fandom in any way (except for watching the show itself), so I don't know what people are talking about, but I agree that in the end they made clear that Dean couldn't have changed anything and certainly didn't "start" things at all.

Well, it's coming more out of fandom where people WANT a reason to blame the character for something. They resent the possibility of a storyline for him, claiming he has been made into a saintly Mary Sue, the screentime he gets is too much, the writers favour the actor (and of course there are claims of his bad, overdone acting to go with it) and so on.

For example him telling Mary not to get out of bed is also interpreted as selling baby Sam to the wolves and therefore being horrible.

(Although I was kinda disappointed when it turned out he hadn't told his *real* grandfather about himself...)

Oh, me too. I wanted his family to know who he is. Sniff.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_wyrd_sister_/]

Exactly! *sniffs with you*

Well, it's coming more out of fandom where people WANT a reason to blame the character for something. They resent the possibility of a storyline for him, claiming he has been made into a saintly Mary Sue, the screentime he gets is too much, the writers favour the actor (and of course there are claims of his bad, overdone acting to go with it) and so on.

He gets more screentime because he's cuter.

...

Naw, I'm kidding. A Mary Sue, really? That's a term I wouldn't have brought in contact with his name ever. But I guess when you're desperate... :-P

For example him telling Mary not to get out of bed is also interpreted as selling baby Sam to the wolves and therefore being horrible.

Well, granted, I frowned at this moment, too, for the same reason. But then again, it was his MOTHER who'd just had a monologue about how she wanted her kids to have a better life. He should be forgiven for this...

[astri13.livejournal.com]

He gets more screentime because he's cuter.

*snickers*

Naw, I'm kidding. A Mary Sue, really? That's a term I wouldn't have brought in contact with his name ever.

Me neither. He is decidely un-Lana-Lang-like.

Well, granted, I frowned at this moment, too, for the same reason. But then again, it was his MOTHER who'd just had a monologue about how she wanted her kids to have a better life. He should be forgiven for this...

I didn't have a problem with it because he knows from Season 2 that there were Psy-Kids whose mother wasn't burned n he ceiling so he knew the babies wouldn't be hurt.

What he didn't know at that point was Azazel dripping blood into their mouths - Sam never told him - but I think from the show it was pretty clear that Mary didn't stop anything the demon wanted to do. So in other words, her being there was pretty useless and didn't help baby Sam. But if she had lived, he would have at least had a mother (and one that was an experienced hunter at that).

[http://users.livejournal.com/_wyrd_sister_/]

Mhmmm... ja, so hab ich das noch gar nicht gesehen... stimmt aber!
Wheeee! :-D

[tru-faith-lost.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on all accounts, including the disappointment at the end, though I have heard a couple of other people suggest what gatorpez is suggesting, and I hadn't really noticed that. I think I shall have to watch again. I'm really hoping they're right.

And I was having some discussion in my journal about how Dean's always sleeping, in his clothes, right when Sam needs him to look the other way. I think Sam's putting the whammy on him, and I think if Dean finds out about it, as someone who's had all his power taken away and been tortured for months, he'll feel more violated than that chick Ruby's walking around it. I don't think it will be purty.

[astri13.livejournal.com]

And I was having some discussion in my journal about how Dean's always sleeping, in his clothes, right when Sam needs him to look the other way. I think Sam's putting the whammy on him, and I think if Dean finds out about it, as someone who's had all his power taken away and been tortured for months, he'll feel more violated than that chick Ruby's walking around it. I don't think it will be purty.

Ooooh. I hadn't thought of that. God, you're right. That would be a violation and a betrayal. Oy.

[tru-faith-lost.livejournal.com]

Or maybe I'm just an angst whore who loves the hell outta that story line and is so sick of the Sammy's broken and it's all Dean's fault fics. Bleh. Hate those stories with an unholy passion. lol.

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Or maybe I'm just an angst whore who loves the hell outta that story line and is so sick of the Sammy's broken and it's all Dean's fault fics.

But parallel are the claims of how Dean is bossy and how Sam is his own, strong man, right? Well, that seems to be a strange hybrid, the kick-ass, victimized child-man.

[glasz-housez.livejournal.com]

Haha! I know. It's no wonder I was never a Sam!girl but yet I love Sam. Just not the Sam!girl version of Sam.

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Hehe. Same for me.

[euphory.livejournal.com]

Are you serious?
That is so far removed from canon I don't even know where to begin. Hello? Sam has frigging special powers? Lilith can't kill Sam? How is Dean even a Mary Sue? Just because he keeps on getting killed? If anyone is a Mary Sue, it's Sam who got it all (special powers, everyone loves him, intelligence...ect.). Actually, scratch that, it's RUBY.
Seriously, if you love a character, give him some respect. Reducing him into a little pathetic maidenly creature is NOT GIVING SAM RESPECT. Doing the same to Dean is not giving Dean respect either.

And Jensen being favored? Well, the guy clearly had more work to do and always got punched and stuff. But Jared is still the first one on the credit list. Considering it's a two-men show, Jensen's name is more in the beginning of the alphabet (can't beat Ackles), and he's older and more experienced, it really shows that SAM IS THE MAIN CHARACTER. So what are these people complaining about??!!

Sorry for the rant.

[euphory.livejournal.com]

PS: Especially when the said man is frigging over 6'4'' and full of muscles and special powers who has a brother to cater his every wish??

HOW IS HE A BULLIED VICTIM??

[astri13.livejournal.com]

PS: Especially when the said man is frigging over 6'4'' and full of muscles and special powers who has a brother to cater his every wish??

HOW IS HE A BULLIED VICTIM?

I totally agree but apparently he can be both at the same time, David and Goliath. *rolls eyes*

[legoline.livejournal.com]

My biew od the world totally crumbled when I found out even YOU liked the episode. I feel like the last person left on earth. I can't count on anything anymore.

*stabs episode OMG*

[astri13.livejournal.com]

My biew od the world totally crumbled when I found out even YOU liked the episode. I feel like the last person left on earth. I can't count on anything anymore.

Sorry. *looks sheepish* But before the ep some reviewer stirred the pot by saying they would make everything that ever went wrong in this show all Dean's fault here and I felt so physically ill at the very thought, I was probably pathetically relieved it didn't happen. Maybe that had something to do with my more favourable opinion.

But be assured, I have seen people who hated it. (Granted for some it was obviously because they only like one character and he wasn't there). But I did see some people hate the canon implications. You're not alone. *hugs*

[legoline.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see. Well, that may have had something to do with it.

I don't get those rabdid Sam girls who hate the episode just because he wasn't in it. Seriously, I'd rather have had a good episode with only Sam than a bad one with only Dean. But then I don't get how you can favour one brother over the other so much because...they're like a unity, you know?

[astri13.livejournal.com]

I don't get those rabdid Sam girls who hate the episode just because he wasn't in it. Seriously, I'd rather have had a good episode with only Sam than a bad one with only Dean. But then I don't get how you can favour one brother over the other so much because...they're like a unity, you know?

I do have a certain kink that I want both actors to have been in every episode when the show is said and done but I'd have absolutely no problem with a Sam-heavy episode (that gives me my technical fourty seconds of Dean) if the episode is good.

As for favouring, well, when the shit-raising spoiler of "all Dean's fault" came out, someone posted that this was a "step in the right direction and they were glad to see Dean knocked off its saintly pedestal". Tells you everything, right?

[legoline.livejournal.com]

Wow. Good to see she wasn't heavily biased when she commented...

/sarcasm

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah. Thank god for objectivity, right?

The same person posted elsewhere that her only consolation would be that Jared would make it out of this show with a better reputation and that the industry people would see how Jensen is overrated and can only play one type.

Though everything lost steam a bit when we came to the root of all evil: Jensen's popularity on Dark Angel, standing in the way of the Max/Logan OTP. Still, that was 7-8 years ago? Kudos for carrying the grudge torch for that long.

[legoline.livejournal.com]

I'm sure glad she doesn't take the shipping stuff too seriously :)

[astri13.livejournal.com]

That reminds me, I should start sending Marc Blucas death threats. He totally got hired to replace Angel as Buffy's boyfriend. Grr. :-p

[legoline.livejournal.com]

You mean...you haven't already? *speechless*

[astri13.livejournal.com]

*hangs head*

[gatorpez.livejournal.com]

LOL. I know exactly who you're talking about. I can't believe she still holds a grudge against Jensen for making Alec stand out more than her Logan, and for Jensen having more chemistry with Jessica Alba.

What Dean say in The Benders? "Demons I get, people are crazy"

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Hehe. Right. And the posts are always made in such a way that it sounds like "look how cleverly I conceal my barely concealed venom."
Not really, dude, but keep trying. *g*

[nachekana.livejournal.com]

Dude, you really found someone who wrote all the stupid things you said she wrote? *points at the comments* This is so moronic, I can't even believe she's real! What's wrong in her head? *shakes head* Sometimes, I'm so glad I've decided to go completely spoilerfree for this season. That allows me to avoid most of the useless wanks going on. Well, at least, those taking place BEFORE the episode's airing. After, it's another story...

But 'nough said about that. Or maybe just: why did you make me laugh with your "violated by a broken bottle"? I feel like a perv now... :P

Oh, the things I've read about the "Destiny" talk of Castiel! I'm so glad that you've been able to put into words my thoughts: the past is already set, the future is still indetermined. I'm not the best when it comes to voice my thoughts, so I just wait until someone arrives with a clear explanation! LOL

I'm not even gonna start about how apparently Dean was "ready to kill Sam with his own hands" when he said to Mary to stay in her room. Do people forget that Mary's death didn't affect the fact that Sam got infected by the YED's blood, so that her death was utterly useless? I was flabbergasted when I read some reviews in my flist.

I'm more of a Sam!girl now (used to be a complete Dean!girl in the first season but my love for Sam grew exponentially with the size of Jared's pecs... Ok, I'm not that shallow, I had other reasons too but the pecs did help ;P), but I have to say that some reactions of other Sam!girls made me almost shameful. When I realized that we'll only see 30 seconds of Sam this episode, I did protest. For about 23 seconds, until I was dragged into the plot. When an episode is that great (because I did adore this episode, lots of fun, lots of tears, and lots of amazing actors, even if cute/adorable John seemed a bit off, though that has more to do with the script than the actor), I just shut up and enjoy. Even if I was hoping for a better view in Sam's state of mind after the two first episodes. I have now high hopes for next week's episode!

You wrote that you'd like to see Sam interract with their family too but I'm not sure if that's ever going to happen. So far, only Dean got to do that, in WIAWSNB and now, and even through is relationship with John, and I really think this is a clear decision from the writers. I don't know, I have the feeling that they want Dean to have Sam AND his family, while Sam has only Dean. I guess it's then easier to make Sam makes wrong decision. Because he is less grounded. I don't know, again, I don't really know how to put into words the vague feelings that I've got.

PS: Just finished the fic, it's ten kind of awesome! And the boys really have childish voices in german? Certainely because they look so child-like... *rolls eyes* I was expecting the beginning of season 3 but I think I can survive to watch Während Ich starb... *sniggers in advance*

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Dude, you really found someone who wrote all the stupid things you said she wrote? *points at the comments*

Yup. Though I got to say the Jensen-comments I find to be more over the top. I mean, of course I don't like to read contempt of my favourite character but whatever, he is fictional and I'm a big girl. But the scathing remarks about Jensen's acting to build up Jared's (the wooden, overdone one tear vs. "real" crying in Heart - hey, lady, I happen to cry just like Dean because I'm very private and repressed with showing my feelings; or the way Dean's death in Mystery Spots left her totally cold for the horrible performance etc)?

Like it's impossible for both of them to do fine at the same time. And basically hoping someone's career will flop? Wow.

But 'nough said about that. Or maybe just: why did you make me laugh with your "violated by a broken bottle"? I feel like a perv now... :P

Heh.

I'm not even gonna start about how apparently Dean was "ready to kill Sam with his own hands" when he said to Mary to stay in her room. Do people forget that Mary's death didn't affect the fact that Sam got infected by the YED's blood, so that her death was utterly useless? I was flabbergasted when I read some reviews in my flist.

Eh, I've seen people say even before the episode that if he said that line - it was in the released sides - they would lose all respect/hate the character henceforth. And it was clear they were just waiting for something to crucify him for and do so. So I don't even apply logic there anymore.

I'm more of a Sam!girl now (used to be a complete Dean!girl in the first season but my love for Sam grew exponentially with the size of Jared's pecs... Ok, I'm not that shallow, I had other reasons too but the pecs did help ;P), but I have to say that some reactions of other Sam!girls made me almost shameful.

They are so many perfectly lovely Sam!girls but also some extremists. On Dean's side as well. Though what does bug me is that certain bias in certain areas that Dean!fans are all rapid and insane. Though those areas and the extremists are one and the same so it's hardly surprising.

You wrote that you'd like to see Sam interract with their family too but I'm not sure if that's ever going to happen. So far, only Dean got to do that, in WIAWSNB and now, and even through is relationship with John, and I really think this is a clear decision from the writers. I don't know, I have the feeling that they want Dean to have Sam AND his family, while Sam has only Dean. I guess it's then easier to make Sam makes wrong decision. Because he is less grounded. I don't know, again, I don't really know how to put into words the vague feelings that I've got.

Interesting. I never looked at it that way but it could very well be. Though it does sadden me for the character of Sam.

Certainely because they look so child-like... *rolls eyes*

And I love that JDM has the youngest-sounding voice of all three. The dad. Oh man.

And yay for fic-love.

[nachekana.livejournal.com]

Yup. Though I got to say the Jensen-comments I find to be more over the top. I mean, of course I don't like to read contempt of my favourite character but whatever, he is fictional and I'm a big girl. But the scathing remarks about Jensen's acting to build up Jared's (the wooden, overdone one tear vs. "real" crying in Heart - hey, lady, I happen to cry just like Dean because I'm very private and repressed with showing my feelings; or the way Dean's death in Mystery Spots left her totally cold for the horrible performance etc)?

Ok, this girl is officially sick. I was actually more shocked by what she could have said about Jensen, especially the way he acts because if there's one thing that can't be denied, it's that he is an amazing actor. I remember the " 'cause...Just 'cause" scene in Fresh blood, where Jensen managed to touch me as much as Jared with just his eyes. And this is one scene among hundreds.

Eh, I've seen people say even before the episode that if he said that line - it was in the released sides - they would lose all respect/hate the character henceforth. And it was clear they were just waiting for something to crucify him for and do so. So I don't even apply logic there anymore.

I just don't get that. As you say, it's like they are looking for a reason to hate Dean. I don't understand how they can arrive to this point (and of course, this goes also the other way around) because this show is still about brothers. And family. Hating one of them is like denying the entire purpose of the show. Well, apparently some people have no life. I don't even manage to hate one person in the show, not even the bad guys, so it's really something I don't get.

And I love that JDM has the youngest-sounding voice of all three. The dad. Oh man.

Then I guess I got lucky to see IMTOD! Last occasion to see him talk in german...

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Ok, this girl is officially sick. I was actually more shocked by what she could have said about Jensen, especially the way he acts because if there's one thing that can't be denied, it's that he is an amazing actor. I remember the " 'cause...Just 'cause" scene in Fresh blood, where Jensen managed to touch me as much as Jared with just his eyes. And this is one scene among hundreds.

I agree, I loved that scene so much from both of them. But I think if you want to be dead-set against something/someone, you'll find reason to.

His growly voice all was criticized. Especially in "Are you there, God..." but I read in an review that he was bordering on laryngitis during the shooting. Which, poor thing. And also, take that, basher. *g*

I don't understand how they can arrive to this point (and of course, this goes also the other way around) because this show is still about brothers. And family. Hating one of them is like denying the entire purpose of the show.

It does certainly detract from the enjoyment to hate one half of the show - I mean, do we root then for the favourite to kill the not-favourite or something? - but to each their own.

Then I guess I got lucky to see IMTOD! Last occasion to see him talk in german...

Hehe. Right. Watch and weep. :D

[euphory.livejournal.com]

exactly!
It's a two-men show! Without neither it would NEVER work! Admit it, how many see the show mostly because the two guys are so awesome (and wincest :D)? In fact, neither actor's career can be stripped from the other's right now.
Why can't people just love them both?

[leelust.livejournal.com]

OMG! And you too! It was unexpectedly but very pleasant to know you like this ep :) I have some small problem with the end but i have faith that it's just a part of Dean's mission and Dean's value.

[astri13.livejournal.com]

OMG! And you too! It was unexpectedly but very pleasant to know you like this ep :)

Hee. Last Season I was in full grumpy!smurf mood but for this one I got to say that so far I loved all of the episodes.

I have some small problem with the end but i have faith that it's just a part of Dean's mission and Dean's value.

I guess I might not have full faith but I'm hopefully excited for where it all leads.

[leelust.livejournal.com]

Last Season I was in full grumpy!smurf mood
Yeah, i know, i've read your posts but didn't comment cos i like S3 :)
I'm hopefully excited for where it all leads
Oh, me too! I just want to know as fast as i can (spoilerho's here) about the whole Dean's role in mytharic cos for now i see only his part with stopping Sam which makes it all about Sam again (i don't mind actually just want something for Dean and Dean only that won't be related to Sam).

The ending

[spacefarer.livejournal.com]

I agree with gaterpez. I don't think the end was just about Dean being there to "save or kill" Sam. Castiel doesn't appear to have any real interest in Sam as Sam; his interest seems to be confined to Sam's role as a pawn in Azazel's endgame--a part that would be played by whichever of the psychic kids was the last one standing, and in this generation, it's Sam.

Castiel never says to Dean that Sam is hovering on the edge and if Dean can save Sam, little brother can become a force for Good and a tough fighter for God's Army. He doesn't give any indication that he is seeking to recruit Sam for the good guys. HIs only concern appears to be that Sam not end up a game piece on Azazel's chess board.

It seems to me that he is really giving Dean a bone. God has work for Dean that involves the seals and/or Azazel's plans, and I think Castiel has come to understand Dean well enough to realize that if the angels blow Sam away in a preemptive strike, Dean will walk. So Castiel is giving Dean the chance to rescue his little brother to keep him happy.

I'd add, "And out of trouble," except, hey, this is Dean we're talking about!

Re: The ending

[astri13.livejournal.com]

You make some really good points and I can only hope the writers are with you on this. This Season has the potential to be awesome and I want it to be.

I'd add, "And out of trouble," except, hey, this is Dean we're talking about!

Heh.